The PURR Act | Weekly Pet Roundup

0:01 Well, hello Instagram, hopefully we let's see if I can invite you. OK, How's everyone doing today? Happy Monday. OK, let me go live on Facebook and YouTube. OK. Hello Facebook and YouTube. Hi. Hi. Welcome to the weekly pet roundup. I know it's Monday, which is it can go a lot of different ways. I'm falling asleep on this Monday. Is everybody else feeling a little sleepy or is it just me? Like, I had my coffee.

0:58 I only have like one a day. And I don't like to, like, over caffeinate because then I feel jittery. But I feel like, yeah, I feel just sleepy. I feel like I could have just taken a nap today. But there is time for that. Yeah. Links the cat. Same. I hope you get some rest tonight. Links the cat, 23. I know I'm going to go to bed early. I'm going to call it early tonight. Good. For you, I wish I could. So I wish I could ever do that this week. I've actually been wanting to talk about this for like months. So I was like really excited last week when you're like, let's talk about the per act and I'm like, oh, you want to talk about that?

1:44 OK, cool. It's actually a really, really big deal. And I just think there's so much noise right now that people aren't hearing about it. People aren't seeing about it. It's certainly not in the media. And so I'm curious as to where you first saw or where you heard about it from. The first thing I heard about it from was from one of the mailing like emails from the true crazy cat ladies. That's where I first found out about it last week. I hadn't heard anything about it. Yeah, so basically what's happening and I want to let everybody know because I'm trying to I'm trying to do better if a social media thing.

2:29 If you comment per PURR my my AI chat bot should message you details with a link to learn more about the per act as well. But we're going to talk talk about it a little bit to kind of get you prepped for what you're going to see when you go to this link. So basically, and I, you know, we have talked about pet food regulation in the past, but like a broad overview is that, and, and even people in the pet industry, like I was literally just talking to somebody who manufacturers pet food the other day and it's like people just slip all the time and say that AFCO regulates pet food.

3:18 That's not true. AFCO was set up as like an independent contractor, I guess is like the best way to describe how this relationship works between AFCO and the FDA. And so basically the FDA set up an MOU or Memorandum of Understanding 100 years ago, more than 100 years ago with AFCO and said, you tell us what things with what definite with the definitions of different things are label requirements, all of that. Like what do, what do pet Food Standards actually need to be? So AFCO went to the NRC and said we're going to basically adopt NRC standards, which are are widely used in other countries. And then for the past 100 or so years, they have been tasked with all of this, providing this information to the FDA, to all 50 individual states.

4:23 And then the states get to say, yes, we're going to adopt that or no, we are not going to adopt that. And over the past 100 years or so, the goal in the FDA's eyes was for AFCO to kind of bring all of this together and get all 50 states on board so that everything was uniform across the US and every state. So a bag that you buy in New York is the same as the a bag you buy in California or whatever, you know, for, for example. And they have not been able to do that. There are states still that are like, Nope, we're not going to adopt that. So at this point the FDA is like, thank you so much for all of the hard work you have done.

5:09 We still want to work with you. We want to, we want to work with you in some way, shape or form. Don't exactly know what that's going to be yet. But the proposal right now is to end that memorandum of understanding. And the FDA is going to take all of that information, all of the pet food regulation and say the center of veterinary medicine. You're going to have 100% control over this. And we want to make it uniform across all 50 states, period, end of sentence. On the surface, that sounds really amazing. However, if you actually read through the PER Act, which I did after I went to the AFCO meeting in August, it is so vague. It is so vague that it doesn't even say where they're going to get the funding to do all of these things. So when you look at like how they're doing things now, state agricultural, each state has their own like agricultural department.

6:15 They have a lot of responsibility with regulating pet food in their states. I should say pet feed, because that's really mostly what we're talking about, though food falls under that because of how everything is currently set up. So they're not even saying how they're going to fund doing all of this. And it's a huge responsibility placed back on the FDA. What's going to happen to all of these people that work in every state to make sure that, that, that have been working with AF Co for the past, I don't know how many, you know, 100 years, obviously different people, but in the same position. And some of the things that are of the of biggest concern is that there are, there are some positives for pet food manufacturers because right now a pet food manufacturer has to literally get their pet food approved in all 50 states individually.

7:21 They have to submit to every state individually. It has to meet those guidelines. And for most pet food manufacturers, they're trying to get it all in one label, in one product. And it's, it's mostly having to do with like label guidelines. And So what what works for a label in one state may be exactly the opposite of what works for a label in another state. So for small pet food manufacturers, I think there are positives in that it's going to be uniform. All 50 states are going to do the same thing. However, it's just so much. That's a huge hassle off of pet food manufacturers. But I think it's going to bring a lot of additional hassle. And the biggest concern is with the consumer. So the there's going to be so much less transparency for the consumer.

8:22 In fact, and I'm kind of pulling up what Susan Thixon says, because I was telling you before we started, I feel like she's one of the best people that kind of takes this government mumbo jumbo jargon and kind of breaks it down to where like the average pet, pet food consumer can actually understand what's going on. And she's saying that, OK, the per act is going to allow pet food manufacturers to list ingredients on the label that may not be included in the food, allowing ingredients to sometimes be present and sometimes not be present. They're also going to allow quality claims to be made on pet food labels that are not validated, such as human grade or like this is for urinary tract health for your pet. So they're going to be able to get a like big pet. I think small manufacturers probably won't like companies that you and I know and trust are not going to be partaking in this kind of misleading marketing. But big pet food for sure, like this is a giant, like, take all the chains off, let let big pet food kind of do whatever the heck they want moving forward is how I see it. And it's really going to be detrimental. Like we're already at a point with, you know, being a pet health coach and working with

9:52 clients one-on-one. I see so many dogs and cats that are, for a lack, lack of a better term, pet food injured, and it's going to make it that much harder for pet parents to actually know what they're buying and putting into their pets bowls. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I kind. Of took over. Sorry. No, you're fine. You're fine. So I'll just read the so did. Did you read from her? The PER Act establishes the FDA Center for Veterinary Medicine as the sole regulatory authority over pet food for dogs and cats. What do you, Jessica, know about the FDA Center for Veterinary Medicine?

10:39 I know that the Center for Veterinary Medicine is very tradition, very, how do I want to say this Western, like they're, they have a Western mindset. So they're not interested in holistic modalities. They are very anti raw food. So I, I, I really am concerned for the future of commercial raw food because of the, you know, if, if this does and it looks like it is going to pass, they are. So we we were talking before we started recording pet food PFI pet food industry.com Yeah, my brain was blinking on on the eye.

11:30 Also, they so PFI is an organization where a lot of the big pet food manufacturers sit on the board. So Purina Hills Royal Cane like they sit on the board and make decisions basically for PFI and they are very, very intertwined for the Center for veterinary medicine. So it makes sense that everything in the per act really is designed to make things easier for big pet food to make to kind of loosen regulation, kind of let them do what they want to do, let them label how they want to label, let them put food in or not put food in. And if that ingredient didn't make it into this batch, Oh well, you know, the stable requirements are so much looser now.

12:17 So it's definitely going to be beneficial for big pet food, which means it is not beneficial for consumers in my opinion. I urge people to please go read the per act. It is available on Congress. The Congress, yeah. So this is. The way I will, I will read it. For those who are listening, I'll read it. It's as. This is the summary that congress.gov gives. This bill establishes the Food and Drug Administration's Center for Veterinary Medicine, CVM, as the sole regulatory authority over pet food for dogs and cats.

13:03 Take a quick break here. There has until this moment never been a through Regulatory agency, correct? So technically the FDA has and always has been the Regulatory agency. They've just. They're moving it from the FDA to this part of the FDA. Correct. Yeah, yes. Perfect. OK. It also provides certain flexibilities for pet food manufacturers with respect to the types of ingredients they may use and the associated labeling and marketing requirements. This is not from Susan to Susan Fixon. This is from congress.gov.

13:46 It provides certain flexibilities. That does not give me the warm and fuzzies at all. It continues, the bill specifies that no state or local government may establish, implement, or enforce any authority or requirement related to pet food marketing or labeling, and instead provides for oversight solely by the CVM. Additionally, the bill provides a presumption that pet food ingredients are generally recognized as safe. There is a an acronym for that GRAS generally recognized as safe if they are recognized as acceptable per the Association of American Feed Control Officials, and the CVM does not find otherwise. Manufacturers may voluntarily notify the CVM of ingredients that are considered generally recognized as safe, but that have not yet been specifically recognized as such. Somebody please make that make sense to me. I'm going to read that again.

14:53 I'm going to read that again. Manufacturers may voluntarily notify the CVM of ingredients that are generally recognized as safe but that have not yet been specifically recognized as such. That they used recognized twice to basically cancel each other out. Again, it's giving a huge amount of leeway to big pet food, basically like right now, if we think about if we take our pet food brains. Off. And we put our human living in America brains on and we think about the FDA and we think about what we know to be true for drugs or pharmaceuticals, right?

15:42 Because that's the FDA Food and Drug, right? Why they're in the same branch, I don't know. Well, I think we do know. But anyway, a pharmaceutical manufacturer can run their own studies, pick and choose the data, pick and choose the studies and say, here you go FDA, this is, this is safe. Let us put our product through. We just paid off all these people, blah, blah, blah, put our put our pharmaceutical through and it goes through in our food system here in the United States.

16:22 It is a it's an innocent until proven guilty let right system with the FDA. So food manufacturers can put all kinds of chemicals and toxins in our food and they do. And there are hundreds that are banned in other countries because they are known to be carcinogens. They are known to be toxic. But our our food manufacturers still put them in our foods because no one has taken the money or the time to prove to the FDA that they are not safe. So basically they're going to, they apply the same system to pet food. Here you go, put it in there. Pet food manufacturers saying, look, this is I promise you, this is generally recognized as safe.

17:02 We're going to use it and there you go. Ingredients that are considered generally safe, generally recognized as safe, but have not yet been specifically recognized as safe. That's literally what the sentence says. The last thing is the bill also allows manufacturers to state without prior approval that their products one sometimes, but not always have certain ingredients. Like you said though, dispatch doesn't have this. The example they give us flavors. So you're buying like a bacon flavored kibble, but it may or may not taste like bacon. I mean, are you really going to verify that No2 have certain health benefits? Example they give is tartar control. The other what Susan Fixon was actually talking more about like urinary tract health, etcetera, etcetera. And then the last one is, are human grade or natural? If certain conditions are met, they can write that it's human grade, even though it's not, because nobody's really verifying that.

18:02 Yeah. Is that am I understanding that properly? Absolutely, Absolutely. We all know, I think everybody who like follows us and knows us knows that the word natural means absolutely nothing. So like as a consumer, you just look the other way. But human grade should mean something. Yeah. Because the the agriculture, the Department of Agriculture has established, right. Like these. Yes. Criteria so that for me as a consumer is a huge problem because I understand what human grade means and now that definition that I've had forever does not apply anymore. Like we just got rid of it. Yeah, Yeah.

18:45 Well, and the Center for Veterinary Medicine, in my opinion, I, I don't think in our world at least doesn't have a whole lot of trust, like we don't have a whole lot of trust in them to begin with. From everything we talked about earlier this year, the literal over fat over 1000, well over 1000 that we know of reports of pets being sick and very, very sick and many that died. And basically the FDA coming out and saying sorry, we can't, we can't prove that that, you know, these pet parents are actually coming out with with media stories saying pet parents are maybe not telling the truth.

19:33 You know, like meanwhile, one dot and granted every single every single instance that an animal is injured matters, but in comparison, one dog gets sick off of a raw food and they freaking every media outlet all at the same time. Don't feed this food, don't feed raw. You know what I mean? Like it's it's very, very biased, very, very obviously biased. And so there's not a whole lot of consumer trust in them to begin with. I think generally speaking out even out like. Outside of pet food, there's not a whole lot of consumer trust in the FDA.

20:17 No, no. Anybody who's gosh, anybody who's has any understanding of the F the way the FDA works. And honestly, like, I don't trust any. I don't trust our government just because lobbying is allowed, right? Like that's really what it comes down to to me. It's like if there's money involved, you know, money talks and SHIT walks always. That is the case for every government agency, I believe, not just the FDA. The FDA unfortunately affects us more, right? Like. When the FDA. When like big chem, for example, like big chemical is like getting stuff through that is in our clothing, that is in our laundry detergent, that's in the thing that we clean up our babies messes with, then it like it's affecting us like right then and like right immediately, right. So food, drug and all the agriculture, all of those, they affect our every single day life. And as a consumer, they also affect our finances, right? Because here we are buying something that says human grade, urinary tract health, tartar control, thinking that we are doing the best for our pets, but we're paying more for something that is not necessarily better or is not going to have the results that we're hoping for.

21:49 So what? How as consumers before, it was already hard to navigate. When people ask me, and I get asked this a lot, like what's the best food? I'm not doing raw, I'm not homemade. Like I didn't have an answer. And I've been doing this for almost 20 years, and I'm like, I don't know what to tell you because I can't recommend anything. There's no transparency. You really don't know, Like kibbles, just like the equivalent of Doritos. At the end of the day, it's just like we're feeding our pets Doritos every twice a day for their whole lives. And now I feel like it's going to be even less clear, right? Like if we were already unclear, if we were already a hodgepodge of nonsense in the pet food industry, now we are giving carte blanche. Two pet food manufacturers and the only ones who get screwed are the consumers and our pets.

22:43 Yes. And I think one of the bigger concerns for me specifically, and I think, you know, Susan Thixton for one, probably probably sees it this way as well, is that by removing AFCO, which is not great, is not a great system in admittedly it's not wonderful, don't love it. But by removing AFCO, we're also removing the ability of consumers to have a word to show up at a meeting and say I'm not to get in front of these people and say I'm not OK with this.

23:28 And I have this, you know, whatever. I have this petition with 10,000 signatures telling you like, they're not OK with it, You know, to have that ability to get in front of people who are creating the guidelines for pet food like, well. Yeah. Now we have had that for our representatives, yes. And we all know how that how, how easy and how effective that tends to be. Yeah. That's really who's going to be in charge now. Yes, and going back to like not trusting, I actually just saw this today and it made me think when you were talking about the FDA and and how it affects our everyday lives.

24:09 You know, they, they said, they told Roundup, they told Monsanto who makes Roundup and they said or bear who makes Roundup. And they said, OK, you can't put glyphosate in Roundup anymore, right? Like that was such a huge win we thought. And now today we know that the new Roundup, somehow they have managed to find a combination of four chemicals that they're saying is 45%, I'm sorry, 45 times more toxic than glyphosate. Yeah, it's the same thing as BPA free, right? BPA free. But now they have BS as or whatever, BPA, s s or whatever that are just as bad, if not worse. So yeah, they get around all these things and I don't feel like.

24:57 So AFCO is, whether you like them or not, specialized, right? They're they're aware, right? ARP representatives cannot be expected to understand the insurance and outs of everything that we throw to the federal government like it can't pass, it can't be. Done. Yeah, no. So I and. So Susan Thixon gives us, you know, send send an e-mail. She sends that she if you go to her website, truthaboutpetfood.com and just use the little search feature to find the per act. And again, the per act is just just because it's. Comment comment per and I'll send you that link. OK, so the per ACT, even though it sounds like cats, it's for dogs and cats specifically, but that is actually just the acronym.

25:53 But she has a sample letter, She has the list of your House of Representatives. She has a list of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce. Yeah, the list she has are the representatives who are members of the subcommittee who are, who write the ACT together. But then she she says to she has a link that you can find your representatives so that you can get them involved. But again, like how how many of them are really going to put this at the top of their list? Yeah, how many of them have the ability to understand the implications of this?

26:37 Because, you know, they're just they're they're not experts in the pet industry. Like they're they're, you know, they they may have may come from backgrounds where they're experts in aviation, right? Like you never, you never know what your representative comes from. But like, I guarantee you, they're not experts. They're not Susan fixing. So they don't. They're not implications. Well, and I think the point is that if a a representative receives enough feedback on the same issue they're going to, the idea is that they would have to pay attention, right? They don't. So when I emailed my representative specifically, I said, look, you know, I kind of copied Susan's example and then I customized it and I said, you know, could for me being in Texas, I said there are two, two other Texas representatives who are on this subcommittee and this is not OK by me as a, you know, I mean, someone like customize it and let them know that like this isn't just a copy and paste, like you were actually paying attention that you are actually, Yeah.

27:55 Well, right now the per ACT has simply been introduced. It next next would have to go to the House. That's why she's saying get get in touch with your house, your your congressman or woman congressperson and then it'll go to the Senate. So then you're going to have to we're going to have to involve the senators. Yeah. And then it goes to the president and then it becomes a law. So like if there's a process that it has to go through, but the further it gets, I feel like the less chances of it being even just like redefined, right? Like if people don't say anything, it'll go because nobody will stand between. It in my opinion, it's not ready, right?

28:38 Like I'm not 100% against it because obviously we're not big fans of AFCO either, but it's not already the the way it is written currently. It needs a lot of work if they were to pass this. I mean, it's just basically giving big pet food kind of carte blanche to do whatever the heck they want in my opinion. And again, it, it specifies nothing about where the funding is coming from about, you know, what's going to like, how do state agriculture agencies play a role? Or do they not anymore? Like they're, there's a, there's a lot missing.

29:18 It's not like we're going to get it, we're going to do this or we're not going to do this. It's literally missing a lot. And if you're not in the industry, you wouldn't necessarily know that by reading the ACT, which is why, like, I personally rely on people like Susan Fixton. And I've fortunately for me, I happen to have direct access to Doctor Kathy Alanovi, who has been, she has, you know, a pet food trade association and sits on AFCO boards and does all the things. So like, there's a lot surrounding this that most people don't understand or, you know, wouldn't wouldn't know just from reading the ACT itself. Though I do think they should read the app. So the there's an attorney's office, cove.com Covington is the name and they describe it in great detail. And one of the things they say is the per act would require FDA to issue guidance within 18 months based on the AFCO guidance in the 2024 AFCO official publication regarding substantiating nutritional adequacy claims, metabolizable energy protocols, affidavits for fed pet food testing protocols, data to support a calorie content claim analytics Bah Bah Bah Bah Bah Bah Bah.

30:44 But that's within 18 months and there's no oversight on that, right? So like this gets passed and then the FDA gets to call those shots, Am I wrong? Correct. And I think specifically what they're talking about there is that they did, AFCO did recommend and I think they were giving pet food manufacturers a number of years. I don't remember it was two or five years to change the labels to. So right now it lists protein, fat, moisture. They want they're they are going to be required to list carbohydrates moving forward. And they were giving pet food manufacturers like a number of years.

31:28 And so this is going to say Nope, it's got to be done in 18 months. So I think that's kind of. Where? And then there's the FDA must issue proposed regulations after that within one year of enactment. So it's 18 months to get the guidance and a year to of an enactment and final regulations within two years. The initial regulations must include the AFCO model pet food rules. But that's just the initial regulation, right? Like at the end of the day, does it have to stay? So, well, that's kind of one of the questions that I had when I originally read it. So I'll just read you one of the things that I I emailed to Doctor Kathy.

32:14 I said it's also interesting how the ACT refers to replacing the patchwork of regulation while simultaneously implementing the AFCO 2024 publication. So they're saying this is horrible and it's patchwork, but this is exactly what we're implementing. Yeah. And so I wonder if they plan to overhaul it. Obviously that would take a whole lot of time. And in my opinion, anything that we have seen in the past with regulation is that they don't ever fix anything. They just add more regulation to it. So I think it would be overly optimistic to think that they do anything more than add to the existing quote patchwork.

32:54 It does mean an overhaul. And so in that regard, I'm like, OK, cool, something shiny and new. Maybe they're going to fix it all. But the reality is, if history has told us anything, the FDA doesn't fix anything. So. AFCO came out in February when this was first proposed and said that AFCO was not consulted or invited to be involved in the drafting. But AFCO told Pet Food Industry News that it has given the draft of the bill shortly before the IT was given the bill before it was introduced. The executive director of AFCO says as a result of Afco's limited input, we do have many concerns related to the proposed legislation at this time, which was February when this was published. AFCO is collaborating with numerous trade organizations with insight into the FEED industry to review our concerns and determine the next best steps. Yeah.

33:48 And I think what they have said since then, because the FDA did have somebody attend the AFCO meeting in August that I was at and he spoke the FDA representative and said that they are committed to continuing their partnership with AFCO. They basically just don't know how yet. And since then, they, there has been some talks of like, so the Center for Veterinary Medicine, who is proposed to take over all of the pet food regulation. I want to say it's Kansas State, the the veterinary Kansas State University's veterinary department that they're going to be working with to do that.

34:40 And I think the idea being floated is that ATCO can work with Kansas State to work with Center for Veterinary Medicine. So it's, it's still very like disjointed. Yeah, but bottom line, it's like everywhere I turn and every little nook and cranny is like it's going to be very detrimental to consumers. 1 where the in every facet as far as I can tell. Yeah, Yeah. There hasn't been any statements from AFCO on this that I can see on their from their Executive Director, Austin Thorell.

35:24 I've been looking and like there was nothing. The only things that I see are from like March and April. So I don't know are they like working under, you know what I mean? Like are they working on it? Are they saying nothing yet? Do you? Have so OK, yeah, no, I haven't. I have an e-mail from AFCO that was sent October 1st and it does it was it is Kansas State. It says AFCO is considering a proposal from Kansas State University to establish new regulatory pathways for animal food ingredients. So that, and I think that's the last I've heard from AFCO about it. So it's considering a proposal from Kansas State University to provide the scientific review for its new animal food ingredients submission pathway, of course, but that's just for food and that's just for ingredients, right?

36:16 So there's a lot of other things that AFCO marketing it's. Yeah. Yeah. So question, AFCO obviously is not in a position where this is good for them because they probably got paid for being part of this, right? So like up on the other side of the coin, AFO is going to be like, no, I don't want this just because like now I lose my third party status in this. Whole. Scenario. So they're not like, you know, I like to I like to think of it as like the most reliable witness, you know, and there's no reliable witness here because Afco's not going to be like the Super most reliable, the pet food industry not the most reliable. The only person that really makes no money off of this has nothing to lose or gain is Susan Thixon. Am I right in this whole thing?

37:05 Yeah, because even any trade associations, they they have, right, they have interest. Yeah. So yeah, Susan doesn't doesn't have. An interest Hi, Brooke. Hi, Brooke on Facebook. How are you? Today's topic is like it's kind of boring, but also like concerning, you know, it's it's like, oh, nobody wants. It's not at all boring to me, but I understand. Well, no, I mean like like there's. Yeah, to the average person it would be very boring. I get that. I feel like it's boring because there's not a lot to there's not a lot. It's kind of at a standstill. So like I feel. Like, there's a lot.

37:46 To like report. Yeah, and I think AFCO will probably take anything that CVM throws at them because they don't want to. I mean, right now as it stands like if if they completely lose the memorandum of understanding with the FDA and there is no pathway for them to continue to be involved, then yes, everybody there loses their job basically. And again, don't don't have any idea what would happen to those people in the state departments of agriculture who work under, you know, in the pet food regulation departments like there, there was nothing in the act that said what would become of them. Yeah, so it's just a whole lot of standing still right now. But do they have any like the I've looked for a timeline. There's no timeline anywhere that I can see. So it's just like a whole lot of nothing, I guess. Is that that's the point of the Yeah, boring. It's a boring topic because it's not like we have any dead like we don't have.

38:52 No. Yes, if you want to send a letter, an e-mail, please do ASAP because we don't know when you know this passes this, this is presented to. I don't know. Does it even say let me just check the Congress dot? I imagine that it is. It was introduced in February. February 16th. Let's see. All yes. And the only the last action is introduced to the House February 15th. Refer to the House Committee on Energy and Commerce on the same day and then refer to the Subcommittee on Health on the 16th of February.

39:33 That's it. Like that's all that's happened so far. Yeah, and I'm sure it's really difficult to get anything done right now with, you know, we're so. Close to an election looming, yes. Yeah, it's either. They're going to want to try to push anything through they can last minute between now and the end of the year or, or not the even the end of the year between. But I, I just don't think they're going to get anything through in the next week. So it will probably go to the next Congress administration. Yeah, the next administration, which I honestly, I, I I'm of two minds on that too, because obviously not knowing who's getting in, who's going to win and not to get political, but there is definitely.

40:26 Yeah, Doctor Kozier is saying regulation and law is not interesting to most people until it's either costing them money or impacting their needs. And that's the thing that I think this is going to impact consumers greatly. But they're not going to know. They're not going to understand how correct. Yes, exactly. That's then. And what I mean is boring because there's no updates. I don't mean that it's not important to discuss, otherwise I wouldn't have recommended the topic. But what I'm saying is, yeah, like it, of course it affects us, but nothing is happening. So when, when will this affect us? What's the next step? We have no information on that. So if you are concerned with what we've shared with you and what is available for us to read right now, then I would say don't wait. And then after the election, if there is going to be a change in your representatives because of this election, contact them as well.

41:21 So keep on this, keep, you know, keep checking in with Jessica. I'm sure she'll share with you. But it's something that you probably need to do now. And then you may have to do again once there is a changeover in your district or in your state. So just remember that the timing is one that means that you might have to send a few letters, a few emails, And like Jessica said, customize it, share why you care. When I write to my representatives, I make it personal. And I, of course, you know, I do. I know kind of like, if you're a Republican, what your values are. And I know if you're a Democrat, what your values are, they may be different in your mind.

42:09 So appeal to those values, Right. Like, yeah, you, you, you should know enough by being involved in politics because as a voter you are involved in politics whether you like it or not, but has no knowing that, no, like, oh, this is somebody who's not doesn't share my values, but we can come together on this one thing. Right. Like yes, because. I like are not the same, but this is important. This is why. Food, our food supply and our pets food supply is not a partisan issue. So no, it's not a partisan issue. So I don't care if your representative, if your representative is somebody that you did not vote for, it is still important that you.

42:56 Yeah. They're still your representative. They are, even though you did not wish for them to be. They are your representative, and as one of their constituents, they have to hear you out. Whether they. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot of automation these days, a lot of thank you for your e-mail. Like I get it, but like I was. Saying they're campaigning, especially if they're trying, it's trying for re election. They're all campaigning. They're not in the office. We all know that. Yeah, some healthy dog workshop. Yeah, it's still in the it's been in the subcommittee since since February 16th, the day after it was introduced. Nothing has happened since. That's on congress.gov. So, yeah, I mean, there's not much to discuss, but it is something that you need to be put on your radar.

43:41 One of the things I like to do about things like that is I like to create a Google alert, and I really like it to be like a news source, not like some Amazon something, yeah. Or like that, I don't know, you know, make sure that it's the per act. And if you go on congress.gov, it has, you know, HR7380, a 118th Congress. You could put maybe that where you can better, you know, narrow down the results. You're not getting a million of nonsense. But yeah, I think it's really important for us to stay informed. This is just one of the things that like why everybody cares about the election, right? As consumers, these elections affect us. And I think not to, again, not to get political in any way, shape or form because who I vote for is only for me to know. But when you are locked out of voting, this stuff happens to you.

44:37 So if there's anything we can say, Jessica, and I agree on this 100%, is figure out who best represents you best, represents your interests and go vote for them. And it's a presidential election, so that takes all sorts of attention from everybody. But your local representatives are impacting every single thing that happens to you, your family, your pets, in your backyard. So it's not just about the representatives. It's not about the representatives who best represent you 100%, because if I had to vote for anybody right now that is 100% my equal, my like carbon copy in my values, I wouldn't be able to vote right?

45:25 Because like nobody represents me 100%. That's not the point is. The point is, if you know somebody is you know. Is going to What policies are going to make your life better? No. And somebody who you'd feel could have a discussion about something like this, right, like where you feel like you can take something to this representative and you would be taken seriously. If that's not the other guy or the other girl, then go to whomever you think is going, would be willing to hear you out, would be willing to, you know, at least read your, you know, at least read your letter, at least have one of their staff members reach out to you because there's a lot of people who make a lot of promises.

46:16 And then when it comes down to it, they're not going to do anything for you. They're just in it for themselves. And that's politics. That's the United States specifically because of all the lobbying we allow. And until that changes, I'm going to be a cynic. That's just who I am and who I am. But like, get out there and vote. Get out there and vote. Like, there's no way you can complain about anything that is happening in Congress if you did not vote, vote for your representatives. Sorry. There's there's a reason why, you know, whether it's Congress or sent, why a representative is paid like, I don't know, a hundred, $150,000 a year, but they come out millionaires.

46:56 There's a reason and it, it's the lobbyists. So it is, it is not a great system, but it's what we have to work with. Exactly and. So whomever you feel like will be less about the lobby and more about the people, if that's important to you, then go get out there and vote for them because otherwise they're, you know, and we're still everybody's campaigning, everybody's spending the millions of dollars a day on ads. And at the end of the day, like we need to get out there and vote for who we think best represents us and our families and our, and our values and the issues that are going to affect us every day. And honestly, as pet parents, this issue has a really big, big impact on us. Like to feel like you're buying something, thinking you're buying something.

47:44 And then it's just crap. Like think about you going to a Louis Vuitton store, purchasing a Louis Vuitton, and then it turns out it was made in China because nobody's regulating that. Like, can you like, that's the equivalent to me. It's like you go somewhere and you get a GE appliance, but it's actually not a GE. They just put a sticker on it. Like that's really what this is equivalent to. So if you're a hard worker and you want to protect your, you know, your, your money, your finances and your pets, because this is food, this is literally their lifeline. This is what they eat every day, then this is a big deal. And and if you're not angry already, like. Yeah, and.

48:27 Get out there and get angry. Yes, and comment the word purr, PURR and I'll send you a link to Susan Thixton's blog that tells you and everything about the per act and how and and it has links to contact your representative in Congress. Because that is what we can do at this point is to contact because hopefully, hopefully your representative, my representative, they get enough of these emails that they're like, OK, this is actually a concern to the people that I'm representing. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm making a face because I feel like pet parents are not outspoken enough. I feel like they feel defeated a lot of the time and they're like, it's not worth my time.

49:19 So I don't have faith in us as a general group. The pet parents, I see it with kids too, right? Like I see it with, it's not just pets. I see it with parents too. Like we're so overwhelmed that it's just like that thing that never gets done. And like, like you said, most people don't even know this is happening. I'm in the pet industry. I'm, I, I have not heard about it until now because I'm not in the food space specifically. I'm hearing all sorts of news and this news, did I see it somewhere and like not pay attention to it? Maybe. But like, that was the the only time that I paid true attention to it was in an e-mail from the two crazy cat ladies that said, and I think it was kind of, I don't, I'm not saying that they're inflammatory in any way, but like their e-mail was kind of like a little kind of an urge.

50:07 This is a big deal, right? Like it said something that caught my attention. But if they hadn't even framed it that way, I still may not know. Yeah, well, and Doctor, Kosher is right, She says it's called fraud in the pet food industry commits that everyday. You're 100% accurate, which is why I, for the most part I do still my cats eat some canned food and that is from companies that I don't know personally. But everything else that goes into my pet's mouth is only from a company that I talk to, the people that make the food. Like I don't, you know, like that's just where I am in my journey. And I know most people aren't there, which is why I have to use my voice to let people know what the heck is going on and advocate for them to get involved because it's not right.

50:57 And it's not like we, I, I get it. But not everybody can do what, you know, what Isabel and I do everyday. And you know, you have your own life to live and kids to take care of and bills that need to be paid. And it's tough. But if you want to see change, you do have to get involved. And so when people like us are making noise and saying, no, seriously, this is important. Please, if all you do is send this e-mail, please go send the e-mail. So comment per PURR. And on Instagram, I'll send you the link to Susan Thixon's blog so you can go send that e-mail.

51:38 And I will please say. This I'll finish off with saying my I, I, my, my pets do eat commercial dog and cat food. And I do believe that there's a range, there's like a tier of companies and the ones that are going to do the most harm are not the little ones. They're not the ones that went into this for the right reasons. And like, I will say that I do have faith in some pet food manufacturers. My concern is always with the ones that have the most power. Those are the ones that I'm always like a little concerned by because when you have that much power, that much influence and that much to lose, right? Because you're looking at your, your, your, it's an it's, it's, it's a business before it is anything else, right? Like for a small pet food manufacturer that went into it because their pet, you know, passed away of a potentially preventable disease.

52:36 It's very personal to them. But when you get to these huge conglomerates, it's very impersonal and there tends to be like a disconnect between the consumer and the product because all we want is the bottom line, right? So I do want to say that for me, the biggest concern is those conglomerates and why? Because they reach the the vast majority of the pet loving population. And if you think that those companies whose names I will not share, but we've already discussed a few of them here. If you think they only reach the United States, they're global and a lot of countries will look at the United States as a standard. Latin America specifically, they don't have the resources to have an FDA, the CA, whatever it is, Committee on Pet Food, They're just like, if it's safe according to the American FDA, we'll sell it here.

53:34 Like that's kind of what happens a lot of the time. We're a standard for the rest of the world. So when we tell you that these things impact, they have a big impact, they have a humongous impact, they have a worldwide impact. And for me, that's why I choose the smaller companies for my pets because I feel like there's still that personal connection, there's still that goal of keeping pets healthy while make turning a profit. And the profit doesn't come first for those companies. So that's how I recommend people go when they choose their pet food. It's how big is it?

54:14 Like what you know, like who owns it? Like what, what are they about? What are their values? Because like if, if just pleasing investors is their value, then that come out. Yeah. And that is the truth for those what what we call big pet food, right? Just like big food is just about. Yeah, Big military, big Yeah, all of it, All of it. And, and when you're, and it, it affects our kids too. Like it's the same reason why, I mean, literally the same people who own the big pet food, own the big snack food and we're all sick, right? So like, at the end of the day, it really is those big companies that get to have their, you know, oversight waived and we pay the consequences. Yeah, we do.

55:05 We have to pay in taxes to oh, I give a little thumbs up. We have to pay. Is that what happens so if I do this? It'll give me, I don't know. Well, it didn't do it for you. We have to pay in taxes for the regulation, for the Regulatory agency to allow them to do whatever the heck they want. And then we pay for it with our pets. And I'm just, I'm just, I'm just going to say it from now on. I don't. It just came out of my mouth earlier. Our pets are pet food injured. And that's my from here on out, that's what I'm going to call it, their pet food injured because it is preventable. Just like with us, it is preventable. It is lifestyle choices that are contributing to the insane amounts of disease that we're seeing in humans and pets. It's it's a mirror between US and our dogs and our cats aren't far behind.

56:07 It's, it's so sad, but I think more and more people are waking up to it one way or the other, whether that's with human health or with pet health. And hopefully, you know, eventually they see all of the overlap because it is. And that's one of my biggest concerns, honestly, with even doing better in regulating the human food industry is that if we don't do better in regulating the pet food industry at the same time, then we're just going to see more and more of the junk that they can't put in human food anymore.

56:48 So let's just give it to the pets. Yeah. Because that's what people. Are Doritos, they're both the same. Exactly. That's the I just. Yeah, I completely agree with you. I, I feel like at the end of the day, we are always going to be OK if we're educated, but then it's always the pet parents who aren't educated. And then you start talking about socioeconomic levels and how those groups are more affected by these things because they have less education, less understanding. So this is also an accessibility, an equality. Yeah. An equity issue. Right, because you and I and everybody watching, it's our responsibility to act and to make sure our voices are heard. For those people who don't have any idea this is even going on, we're not just protecting our pets, we're trying to protect their pets too.

57:41 Just like as a parent, Isabel, I'm not, but I know you are. Any and everything you do to get involved to make your child's life better is going to trickle down to other people's children. And that's community, right? Like that. And that's what it takes, correct? Correct. Absolutely. And yeah. And it's speaking out for those who can't. Like I'm thinking just in El Paso, like the level of education in the in, in just pet rearing is so much lower than when I was in Northern Virginia or when I grew up in Miami. And like, you know, it's so unfair that these are the people who are working two jobs because in El Paso, the socioeconomic level of the city in general is lower than Northern Virginia, one of the wealthiest counties in the country, right? And so these people are working two jobs. They're struggling to make ends meet. They're spending their money on this dog food for a dog that, you know, that they're hoping to hang on to because they add so much to their life.

58:38 And now the pet is getting sick. It's not getting the benefits of this urine health dog food that they invested in and they're spending more money at the vet. And it's just like this vicious cycle. And it's so frustrating because they didn't know. They didn't they didn't have the time to do the research. They don't have, you know, you don't know what you don't know, right? So they don't even know what questions to ask. Girl, I was at Pathology this weekend and in the back with Janet because then Pam was helping her. Don't know Popology is a really wonderful boutique pet boutique in Boston that's owned by our friend Janet.

59:22 Yes and these 40 LB bags of kibble 100 a $110. I'm like what the what? Like if you were literally out there spending $100 today because everything is crazy for a 40 LB bag of kibble, let me help you move over to that freezer section because your $100 is going to go way further for a lot better food like. I mean chewy, when you go on chewy it's shocking. Like I when I go on chewy it is shy. I just bought some food for a friend and I was like that's what this costs.

1:00:08 I know I'm like this is. Really junky food stuff I like would never feed is not much cheaper than the the better stuff that I would feed. And it's like, you don't know, $888 for 28 lbs of a low fat GI diet. Absolutely. The the prescription diets, we could talk about that blue in the face. Gosh, they're the biggest racket that has ever existed. They are and that's one of the things. But it, it's a, it is a big concern and the pet food and it's something that that AFCO has been working on. And I'm very curious to see if the FDA ever does anything about it because they market it. You have to have a prescription like it's medicine and there's no medicine in it.

1:00:56 Like it's the biggest it's. Making it difficult for pet parents. My my dog's socks was on the UTI stuff, the crystals Bah Bah Bah Bah Bah. The second I put her on homemade food, she'd never had a crystal again. But of course, every vet I talked to was like, how dare you even think that she'll she could have an obstruction. It could be terrible and it wasn't. So. I mean, I know that not everybody is in the position that I did that when I was like recently married, we had both full time jobs. Like we didn't have any kids. We had the ability, the time, the, the, it was convenient for us. We had the space in our home to do it. I know not everybody can do that. So I'm not suggesting that, but this is what I say. It's like so important for us to stay on top of these things and to like share it with friends because like really, if this does come up in a conversation with your girlfriends, like, oh, what are you feeding?

1:01:51 Remember this and tell them to look into it. Please. Yeah, yeah. Well, so OK, read the per act. It's available at what congress.gov. Go to Susan Thixton's blog, read how she writes it all out in words that we can all understand from somebody who is very experienced having been to many, many, many, many AFCO. That honestly, that is one of my biggest concerns overall is that we're potentially going to lose the consumer advocacy port like because where are consumers going to go? Where are consumers going to go to say, right, to say, to get in front of these regulators to say this isn't OK, right? Like at least we have that with AFCO for what it's worth, at least we have that right now.

1:02:47 But anyway, and while we're still live, you can comment per and I'll send you that link. And yeah, I mean, just as always, like don't listen to me if you don't want to listen to me. Go do your own research, please. Yeah. Please, please. So for those who are on Facebook and YouTube, I did share the truth about petfood.com, the link about about the per act, which I think is what you're going to send them. So for Instagram comment per and for Facebook and YouTube, just check the comments. I put it there for you. And don't forget to vote, guys, don't forget to vote.

1:03:31 Please vote yes. It's our responsibility. We we need to do it. I voted Friday, actually, after you voted. Do you know that? I was like, you know what? I'm just going to go vote. You did. I was like, cuz I I yeah, I travel next week. Wait, Miami? For your mom moving OK. So no, no, live with me next week. I'm so sorry, but that gives you more time to go vote. Please do. So I went to vote Friday and there was a lady who was 101 years old voting and I just think that it was so wonderful.

1:04:13 Just a reminder, guys, in most states, you cannot speak about your candidate. It's illegal. You cannot. Oh, at the polling station? Yeah, you can't. Whomever because. Yeah. Somebody walked out and screamed whatever candidate 2024 And I was like, you can't wear T-shirts, you can't wear anything. Just go demure and mindful and place your vote. And you can celebrate outside however many feet, but just get there. Because I mean, if this older woman, 101 years old, if she was able to vote, I think we can all vote her. I guess it was her daughter who took her and she was still mobile, which is really amazing for 101. Yeah, she needed help walking and voting, but if she can do it, so can we.

1:05:06 Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad I got it done. I wanted to do it like there was a line. I waited. Really. Good. It was like an. Hour evening. It was Friday evening and I think I only waited like 25 minutes. But in Texas November 1st is the last day for early voting. So mark your calendars, get out there, and if you have a YWCA close, that's where I vote. They usually have polling stations there. Yeah, well, you can check. I don't know, just Google your state and early polling and go, yeah, early voting, yeah. And I think actually Google has them on the on maps, probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:05:47 Polling station or polling? Yeah, yeah. All right, guys, please, please, please do all the things, do all the things, get involved. We will see you, I guess, on two weeks. Do we want to do something on Veteran's Day? Oh, through the veteran's day. I don't know what day it is. Veteran's day is November 11th. I feel like it would be fun to go live and and like talk about how to support veteran dogs because that is a really big and important topic. It is. It's a very sad one too. Well, the it's happy in that there are organizations that are doing all the right things for them, but like a lot of people don't know why you need to support these dogs like they don't know I interviewed.

1:06:42 An organization that does this, but there are many. And like what I learned was like how much rehab a lot of these dogs need. Like it's not just they don't kept homes or it's not just they get left in combat zones. It's that even when everything works out like they bring them back, they have a, you know, they, their handler from, you know, their military handler wants to bring them. They have so much work to do that it's like prohibitive for the members of the military. And, and there's no like real protection for them, even though they fight just as much and just as hard and they put themselves in just as much danger as our human military. So that's a really important topic that I feel like, like we said, like not everybody understands these insurance and outs.

1:07:28 And like, if you're game, I will, I would love to like discuss that and just give people some knowledge as to why it's important to support these causes. Sure sounds good to me sounds good all righty well y'all have a great week. Please do go vote. Do it, do it, do it, do it, do it and and. We don't care who you vote for, just go. Vote, Ellen, you one way or the other. Just do it like, yes, please. All right. Well, have a great week. Thanks so much for hanging out with us, and we'll talk to you in two weeks. Bye. Bye.